First Supplement: Travelogue

Summary:

New societies and civilizations. No release date yet.

First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 05 Apr 2008 21:28

I've decided that there are enough new societies and civilizations in the contest area that I can start working on putting together a supplement. As with the core book, it'll be done when it's done, but know that I'm working on it. Questions are welcome.

As I know which civs and societies I want to include, I'll post them here. I'm debating as to whether I should make this a grab-bag, so people can pick and choose what they want for their game, or a cohesive whole - essentially creating an alternative setting. Right now I'm leaning towards the first, but including suggestions for the second.

Here's a first shot at the cover. I'm less enamored of the little doodad below the title than when I started, but we'll see what happens as I go along.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 06 Apr 2008 01:56

Narfanator's Nanori civilization and Pneumonica's Abstractionists soceity are officially in.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 07 Apr 2008 13:48

Awesome! I'm so all over this! And not just because the Abstractionists made it in. I've been looking forward to this for a while!

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 07 Apr 2008 18:12

Pilgrim's Survivalists are in, as a society. There will be the implication that there's probably a whole civilization of them hidden away somewhere.

In case people didn't realize it, I'm currently taking your words from the forum, reformatting them, editing them, and adding to them. Your society or civilization may not end up exactly as you originally wrote it. I'll give people a chance to look over my mangling of their work before I do anything official with it. If you want to write anything additional, or expand on the information you provided, I would not object in the least.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 07 Apr 2008 21:14

I should point out that if you send me stuff by e-mail, I don't really have access to my e-mail at this time. I should by the end of the week (at least in a limited format). I'm trying to find a work-around to the problem, but not having a modem is a bit of a hurdle. Just a little.

And I figured it would be a bit ghost-written. It's your world, we're just trying to fit in (along with all the other folks).

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 08 Apr 2008 17:47

Pilgrim's Daoine na Réalta Foraois are in, as soon as he provides a pronunciation guide. :)

Last edited on 08 Apr 2008 17:47 by Colin_Fredericks Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 08 Apr 2008 20:29

Daoine = Deena
na = na
Réalta = Rey-alta with the "a" pronounced like ago.
Foraois = For-ees

I liberated the bits from http://www.standingstones.com/gaelpron.html

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 11 Apr 2008 00:20

Tau's Overworld is in, as a failed civilization. I have a few of these in mind - they're the places that Cargo Cult or Old-Worlder planets used to be.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 16 Apr 2008 17:15

Incidentally, I think this is a neat one that underscores a galaxy where things that go wrong and things that go right are equally conducive to novelty, growth, development, and recession.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 15 Apr 2008 00:17

Pilgrim's Technomagi are in.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 16 Apr 2008 17:12

Might I cast a vote in favor of possibly having this as a sort of "grab bag" plus having a chapter (or two) about mix-and-matching elements to redefine the face of the galaxy to be more to the player's liking?

I'm suggesting mostly because I look at the submissions, sort-by who's making them, and seeing each person's personal galaxy as being volumes of different from each other person's, even as we come from the same basic principles of "what can get done". If you were, for example, just to look at mine, you'd see a heavily metatech-influenced galaxy run on Van Neumann principles of mechanism as muhc on anything else, with a deep and almost desperate conflict between the warring principles of need and want, not to mention choice and inevitability. It's also a very pernicious galaxy (Razorboys, armies of one, the Phage, and to a lesser extent the CAPP and the Abstractionists).

Note - this isn't how I would run it, but if you were to just look at my submissions you'd probably end up with more than one cold chills about the future.

What I'm saying is that everybody wants to run the galaxy their own way, and having a chapter about rewriting the face of the cosmos without breaking it would be, I think "in line" with the principles of the game.

EDIT: Maybe with one or two chapters or appendixes dedicated to one or more "alternate galaxies", just to show the point?

Last edited on 16 Apr 2008 17:13 by Pneumonica Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 18 Apr 2008 20:23

Pneumonica's Phage is in, as a… um… I'll get back to you on that.
Failed civ? Frighteningly successful non-civ? Cargo cult? Hmm…

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 18 Apr 2008 23:09

How about a different path? Technological, able to communicate but non-sentient - just a bundle of very sophisticated reflexes, like Peter Watts' Scramblers from Blindsight.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 19 Apr 2008 00:13

They do technically fit the definition of a "Cargo Cult" (which is why I sorted them in there). Perhaps they qualify as aliens? Is there a section on the different non-Tellurian intelligences? It could qualify as that as well.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 22 Apr 2008 18:24

Narfanator's Collectors are in. I can see them showing up a lot in Masquerade space, in behind-the-scenes Tao, and as a data collection method for the Union.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 28 Apr 2008 14:46

Pilgrim's Explorer's Society is in.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 10 Apr 2008 16:18

Pneumonica's CAPP civilization is in. I need a little more understanding of why spreading their private lives into their public lives is connected to their infosphere access (unless it's just a compsci joke about sharing your privates in public), but I like them as a whole.

I'm considering moving them from civ to society, because I think they would spread well from one civ to another, but I think I'll leave them as they are for now.

Last edited on 10 Apr 2008 16:20 by Colin_Fredericks Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 10 Apr 2008 16:35

I was hoping they'd make it in. I think the “private->public” trick is mostly akin to increasing their memetic surface area, giving them a stronger interface with the outside world. It's like behaving entirely as yourself with no social barriers. It lets people (kindof) read your thoughts, or at least makes empathy trivial (when you're perfectly honest with yourself and everyone). When memetics and Internet access are synonymous, this gives you an effective network using nothing but subtle emotional changes.

Ah, well, I should really wait for Pneumonica's answer.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 10 Apr 2008 17:09

First, let me say I'm a very happy man. I'm really proud of the CAPP as a creation - I didn't honestly think I could come up with something quite like that.

To add to TauCeti's point, which is essentially correct, the relay of information on the Assembly Infosphere relies on body language and other semiotic queues for communication, and process occurs in the back of a person's (extremely advanced) intellect. The reason why a person would, for example, sleep while still on public display is for the same reason an Internet server remains online 24/7 - it's a part of the transglobal processing power of the Civilization, so many people (not all, and probably not even most) dedicate their every hour, waking or sleeping, to keeping it fueled with as much processing power as they are able to give it.

It should be noted, however, that people can't "read your thoughts" so much as "read what you allow them to". Your thoughts aren't available for public consumption (unless you really don't want any secrets, and most people, even in the CAPP, want those for the same reasons that we want them - they're still human, after all, and still have feelings). Anybody who relies 100% on what you purposefully make available is making the same mistake that anybody who relies 100% on online profiles makes.

Does that add clarity, or take it away?

Last edited on 10 Apr 2008 17:14 by Pneumonica Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 11 Apr 2008 00:09

My main issue: Why does someone else watching you sleep (physical, analogue-world watching, not anything digital involved) change your infosphere connection? I can understand the "increasing surface area" idea, but only as a data-gathering measure. Someone having an intense conversation with a close friend in public seems to be only using up more of their processing power than they would by taking a snooze at home.

Or is the "watching" that you're talking about happening on the infosphere? In which case, why not partition them out of watching you sleep and just let them use some brain capacity for processing?

Note that "because they belive it's better that way" is always a good justification in SA. I just want to know what the beliefs are and where they come from.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 11 Apr 2008 01:00

One of the relevant details that I think has been overlooked is that I do explain that the person sleeping is also receiving information while they sleep (similar to hypnopaedia, or however you spell it, only their sleep-states have been redesigned to be more properly receptive to it). Thus, they aren't just being watched, they're reacting. And yes, the "watching" can be happening on the Infosphere, or the person might be sleeping in a "glass house", or they might be sleeping on a public sleep ward, or any number of other alternatives. The fundamental principle is that the Assembly Infosphere is as much a social construct as a cognitive one, and requires some social subtext, even if that subtext lacks main text to hide beneath.

As for why they did it that way and not others - to them it's less invasive to their daily lives (strange as that might be to say). As society developed, they found that society was cutting further and further into their privacy. Better to manage permissions than to attempt to deny them entirely and fail. At any rate, there are a number of other ways that it could've played out, this is just the way that the original creators found easiest to accomplish given their skill sets at the time. Not necessarily better, just what they had available at the time, and certainly no worse than other mechanisms.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 12 Apr 2008 16:31

Hmm. Ok. I'm starting to get a better handle on them. Thanks.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 14 Apr 2008 02:58

For the record, I think it might be rather good for the game that anything based on super-advanced principles of abstract mechanisms should be ghost-written by somebody who can't clearly envision how it works in their head without a diagram. FYI. In other words, if you ghost-write the crap out of it, I'll certainly understand.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 05 May 2008 18:55

Progress update:

I'm working on editing and cleaning up descriptions of the various groups. I have a first stab at a border for the interior, but I don't like it that much so far. Needs to be either simpler or more ornate. Interior artwork will come much later in the process.

Several of the societies and civs will be my own creation; I have a few favorites from my old campaign that I'll be inserting. I'm still taking submissions, so if you come up with a great idea, don't be afraid to post it. Discussion on the existing ones is also very helpful.

I have an updated version of the cover on my DeviantArt account. The one above looks ok at that resolution, but has some serious problems at higher res. The new one looks slightly different but avoids said problems.

More news as it comes!

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 16 May 2008 01:24

Another progress update:

I've gone through first-pass editing on all the groups I've mentioned so far. I'm starting to write up some of the groups that I'm putting in myself (at least three civilizations, number of societies undetermnied but the total in the book will be at least a dozen).

I have an interesting idea for the back cover, but I need to find some nice stock art for it before I can post anything here. Right now I just have a mock-up.

Beyond that I'm a little sick right now, so my major mental efforts have been directed towards grading tests while I'm lucid.

More info as it comes up. Questions are welcome.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 16 May 2008 14:12

Would you settle for a "I hope you feel better soon"?
Take care and keep your fluids up.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 16 May 2008 15:13

Oh, come on, lucidity? Get your Phillip K. Dick on!

I had to re-write that last statement several times, because "get your Dick on" just doesn't sound right, and "get your Phillip Dick on" sounds like I'm describing a screwdriver. Which is a pun in and of itself.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 30 May 2008 15:55

Update time!

I've started writing some new groups who will go into Travelogue. I'll throw out some names and let you speculate rampantly (or as rampant as we get on this quiet little site).

Civilizations:

• The Harmonious Nations of Gaia
• The Builders of the Great Beyond
• The Dreamtime People

Societies:

• The Instinct-Builders
• New-Worlders
• Peacewalkers
• Traders
• Wargamers
• Breathstealers
• God's Janitors
• The Dancers on Broken Worlds

I really like the last group.

I have the civilizations maybe half-written (which means 90% of the text and 30% of the editing). I haven't started on the societies yet, but I have a good idea of what each of them does and how.

This brings the total for the book up to 6 civilizations and 13 socieites, unless I'm forgetting someone. There are also (I think) four groups who count as failed civilizations.

—Colin

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 30 May 2008 19:24

Something to make a bleak Friday a crappy looking weekend potentially a bit more interesting.

Civilizations:

The Harmonious Nations of Gaia
The Builders of the Great Beyond
The Dreamtime People

Societies:

The Instinct-Builders
New-Worlders
Peacewalkers
Traders
Wargamers
Breathstealers
God's Janitors
The Dancers on Broken Worlds
I really like the last group.

This looks really interesting. I'm more than a little curious as to the Builders of the Great Beyond, the Wargamers, God's Janiotors and The Dancers on Broken Worlds.

Can you tell us anything about them?

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 30 May 2008 20:10

The most common nickname for the Builders of the Great Beyond is "Wraiths." And if the Tao of History was once the SCA, then the Wargamers were once Warhammer 40k fanatics. :)

I can just about promise that you will want to be a Dancer on Broken Worlds in real life.

Beyond that, I will only confirm or deny wild rumors.

Last edited on 30 May 2008 20:10 by Colin_Fredericks Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 30 May 2008 21:33

Why do I have the image of folks laboring over CAD/CAM programs for drones and then going to town with a replicator? Tiny little drones fighting with each other for the objectives set by the Wargamers…

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 01 Jun 2008 14:10

Yeah… tiny little drones… that's it. Tiny.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 02 Jun 2008 02:38

Oh …

Why, oh why do I suddenly have visions of 1:1 scale OGRE games?

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 02 Jun 2008 03:28

For small-scale stuff.

The Star Wars wargames are where it's at.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 02 Jun 2008 16:35

I can just imagine the Star Wars vs. Star Trek wargame arguments.
"Ok, let's try it out!" "Fine, but my deflector dish can stop your ion cannons." "No it can't!" etc.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 02 Jun 2008 16:40

Also: Battle Fleet Gothic. A battleship is about the same size as a super star destroyer, and the "escorts" are each a mile long. Note: the explanation for anything in BFG is "because it'd be incrediawesome!" So the comparison with Star Wars isn't entirely just.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 30 Jul 2008 17:21

The first wave of writing for Travelogue is done. All of the civilizations, societies, and fallen civilizations are described. Now I start on the layout and interior art. There will definitely be a second wave of writing as I reconsider the various groups and what they do in the context of the game world, but the core of the supplement is in place.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 19 Aug 2008 21:00

Here's a tentative logo for the Daoine. The knot still doesn't look great to me, but it'll do for now. Comments are welcome.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 29 Aug 2008 00:48

The reason the knot doesn't look right is that the line's widths are changing. I'd recommend forcing them to the same width, and removing the gray shading along the edge (to avoid making its width look like it's changing even when it isn't). Also, I'd recommend hints of brighter (perhaps yellower) green in the center of some of the sparkles to the right and as part of the green glow on the left. They both look good, but they're rather monochromatic right now. Otherwise, I think it looks awesome.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 21 Aug 2008 21:07

Another emblem, this time for the Dreamers (one of the new civilizations I'm writing). The first one I made for them was this horrible corporate-looking piece of crap, so I chucked it and took an hour and a half on this one instead. Some of the writing is hard to make out at this resolution and brightness, but I like it much better overall.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 29 Aug 2008 00:51

The many exactly identical (other than type face) bits of text bother me. Or well, very similar. I'd recommend increasing the level to which each bit of text fades in and out over it's length (fading entirely out in places). Also, I'd recommend translating "Dream" into as many languages as possible and using that, instead of having them mostly in English. The other possibility is to just have "Dreamtime" or "The Dreamtime People" fade in and out with nothing else. Or combine the two, with a primary one up front and the rest behind. But even the one in the front should fade almost out of existence before coming back.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 22 Oct 2008 21:09

Colin,
Anything new on Travelogue?
Trey

Last edited on 22 Oct 2008 21:10 by Pilgrim Show more

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 23 Oct 2008 15:26

I've sent some descriptions to Kiriko for artwork. I've been trying (and failing, but still trying) to make a decent-looking new border in a different style. I hope to get some more writing and detail work done in the next few weeks, but things have been very slow because of school eating my time.

My DeviantArt gallery will have new images as I deem them worthwhile.

Right now I do not anticipate having the full version ready for Genericon, but a playtest version is a definite. :)

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 23 Oct 2008 19:36

That sounds awesome. The Genericon people got in contact with me a few days ago and I offered to run ~two games of S.A. (2-4 players each) Perhaps it would be useful for us to coordinate (or, at least, for me to avoid interfering with your plans).

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

TauCeti 23 Oct 2008 19:40

Also, I very much like the logos you have for the Gaians, Daoine na Realta Foraois, and Dreamers your have at DeviantArt. The Gaian emblem is especially impressive.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 27 Oct 2008 16:30

So, sometime in 2009 it looks like. I'm cool with that. I was a little worried since I hadn't seen any postings from you on it in a while.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 27 Oct 2008 21:17

I'm having a hell of a hard time with the graphic elements in this book. I'm not sure about either of these emblems for the CAPP. Neither of them is quite what I'm looking for, and neither of them exactly follows the description given, but I'll put them up here for critique anyway.

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pneumonica 29 Oct 2008 08:25

Well, the first image is closer to my original idea, but the second one conveys the "closed eyes" better. Perhaps if the closed eyes were shifted to be on the nodes in the Egyptian motif?

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Colin_Fredericks 29 Oct 2008 20:12

I tried that, but it looked like crap. :(

Re: First Supplement: Travelogue

Pilgrim 30 Oct 2008 19:37

May a graphics ignoramus suggest somethings?

1. Try it with three eyes open and three closed.
2. Failing that, try the perspective trick of a 'cube' that's actually a hexagon with a few extra lines on it and the eyes on the intersections.